So, in fact, youll see someIm trying to remember if the King James does thisa lot of older English biblical translations, instead of saying, They will choose a goat for Azazel, says, Its one for Yahweh and one for a scapegoat. And this is what theyre doing; theyre translating it rather than taking it as a name. Here is another misconception Fr. Stephen: He had to purify himself before he could come back into the camp. He comes specifically to do combat with the evil one. Stephen: Right, hes clarifying. And, one way or another, thats going to kill the goat. Now, a couple notes. Fr. Fr. Islam, in: Encyclopedia of the Bible and Its Reception (EBR), vol. Stephen: So, easy way to prevent that: push him off a cliff, dump him in a hole. Once again, I am delighted to announce that I was mistaken. They and their children were sprinkled at the blood at the beginning of the old covenant, and now we have been sprinkled and purified with the blood of Christ. So thats the non-narrative theology way to say it. I mean, this is how granular this gets. Well do an ark of the covenant episode, just about that. The early Christians did not deduce the doctrine of the Trinity from the fact that they were worshiping Jesus, nor did they come up with Trinitarian theology as a way of buffering the Church against heresy. Fr. Fr. Im Fr. It makes no sense. So theres this idea that works were being taught and handed down. Thats where the feast comes from, the feast of lights. I was pleased to encounter Sorensens Response to Ken Ammis review of my paper Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic? since I am always up for a discussion, always up for correction, and always up for sharpening iron with ironeven when it tends to lead to someone getting cut. Dan: I have two questions, if thats okay. Theres not enough books in the world. So theyre choosing how to describe things and what details to include in order to convey this. He purifies even them. Thats like everyones evening devotional reading right there. All right, thank you! Fr. Andrew: Yeah, ooh. Did it eradicate it? [Laughter]. Stephen: Right, but that opens up Fortnite references. Fr. But the Bible indicates that the Nephilim reappeared after presumably being killed off in the Flood. Stephen: Its important to cover that because reading a lot of things back into that word did not stop with the King James translators who were doing their best and sort of didnt know any better. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, and most Semitic languages work this way, so if any of our listeners are Arabic-speakers, which I know some are, its again those three consonants make up pretty much every word in Arabic. Stephen: So what you see, after that indictment is read, in 1 Enoch and in Slavonic Enoch and in the Apocalypse of Abraham, the same thing happens to Azazel in all of them: Azazel gets bound and chained up and thrown into a hole in the ground and imprisoned there until the end of days, until the day of the Lord, at which point he will be released briefly and then thrown into the lake of fire. Fr. So, sort of prophetically, it said theres going to be this sort of eschatological Day of Atonement thats going to take care of Azazel and take care of this sin and corruption and take care of sacred space sort of once and for all. To actually go in there to purify that space. Two things had to first happen for Trinitarian theology to be hammered out, or so I thought. Stephen De Young and Ancient Faith Radio Subscribe This podcast takes us through the Holy Scriptures in a verse by verse study based on the Great Tradition of the Orthodox Church. Now, most people, when they think of atonement in the New Testament, if I came to someone just at random and said, Hey, where would I go in the New Testament to read about atonement? they would probably not immediately say 1 John. Stephen can write a follow-up book to help us connect these dots. But firstand this is where the English language nerd in me comes leaping outlets talk about this English word, atonement. Okay, so, Fr. Stephen: Right, that was later. Fr. Fr. It includes that, but the way that they tell the story is designed to teach you how Christ, in this case, is the fulfillment of what was given in the old covenant. These studies were recorded live and include questions from his audience. Andrew: All right. So thats the idea. Fr. The first is that Orthodox Christianity had to interact with heresies, resulting in various doctrinal formulas such as Trinitarian doctrine. That was bad for you! [Laughter] Yeah, so Azazel is caught up in all this. Now, while "the psychological characteristics of the Nephilim are not specifically described in the Bible" neither is that they "had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength" nor that they were "generally pictured as being very proud, belligerent, sexually aggressive, and prone to conflicttall, strong, and belligerentphysically intimidatingNephilic characteristics of height, musculature, and psychopathology." Well see more of that as we go on, but to reiterate here that this is not, in its biblical usage, any kind of specialized technical theological term. So this sort of has positive connotations. Stephen: Right, and taken outside the camp. Fr. I dont say, I got up this morning and wrapped my clothes around me.. The Judaism at the time of Christ was entirely centered on the temple, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70. My only criticism of The Religion of the Apostles is that its purpose seems ambiguous. So sin brings the chaos in, or you could say it turns what has been made orderly and beautiful chaotic again. Stephen writes in the preface, the Orthodox Churchproclaims that its liturgical ritual and way of life are in complete continuity with that of the apostles This book makes that case. Then the books conclusion has a couple pages suggesting that the Eastern Orthodox Church of today is the most faithful continuation of the apostles legacy. So the other goat is for Azazel. Fr. Stephen: Weve talked about that theres kind of an anti-theosis that happens. Fr. Fr. Both blaspheming pagans! The fact that some of the most exciting work done in the Second Temple context to the New Testament is being undertaken by non-orthodox scholars like N.T. [Laughter] But we did just have, or were going to talk about Matthew 25 in a second here. Fr. Stephen: No, it has nothing to do with that. So they rededicate the Temple, and although it didnt happen that time, when the tabernacle is dedicated, when the Temple was dedicated by Solomon, after everything is dedicated, after the blood is used to purify everything and consecrate everything, then the presence of God enters in as this fiery cloud. Thats why this is the day when everything has to be purified. The only time it happens is this, and that animal is not sacrificed. Fr. Fr. But no Christian disputes that the theology of the apostles is the standard for Christian orthodoxy, so saying the apostles were orthodox in a general sense is not a very punchy claim since this is true tautologically. Special request. Stephen De Young concludes the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 11. It does not offer a literature review or footnotes for those wishing to explore these issues further, and the bibliography is scant; instead, the book offers a more popular tone that makes it accessible to a wide readership. You guys know, right? Fr. Stephen: Yeah, weve covered a lot, and a lot of big stuff, so this one is kind of the hardest button to button. It has become fashionable within American Eastern Orthodox convert culture to deny that the Orthodox believe in substitutionary atonement. Father Stephen De Young's comments on political converts "If you're a high church Protestant, and your denomination starts ordaining women, and that's the only reason you're interested in joining the Orthodox Church, if they had never started ordaining women, you would have happily stayed there your entire life, you should not become Orthodox. So the goat for Yahweh has to be perfect, blameless, without blemish, pure, no broken bones. Richard B. Sorensen notes, "Nephilim were said to be a race or a group of people that had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength" and that "the psychological characteristics of the Nephilim are not specifically described in the Bible, they are generally pictured as being very proud, belligerent, sexually aggressive, and prone to conflictThe Nephilim are portrayed as men who were tall, strong, and belligerentphysically intimidatingNephilic characteristics of height, musculature, and psychopathology." These werent special, magic goats. Fr. In response to what he viewed as not merely a malformation but a destruction of the Eucharist in Roman practice, John Calvin was dogmatic that the Eucharist is not a sacrifice. Stephen: This idea of, Hey, maybe the serpent in Eden was telling the truth. Fr. Fr. Father Dr. Stephen De Young traces the lineage of Orthodox Christianity back to the faith and witness of the apostles, which was rooted in a first-century Jewish worldview. How are you doing? We just walked through the Day of Atonement ritual, the goat for Yahweh, the goat for Azazel, and what those things mean. Andrew: That would be a long, long list. Stephen De Young continues the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 13. So if you were to translate Azazel as the goat that goes away, then the other one becomes the goat that is who he is and makes things come into being. [Laughter] Like, it doesnt, Fr. Father Stephen De Young is the pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church (Antiochian) in Lafayette, Louisiana. Enter the email address you signed up with and we'll email you a reset link. Stephen: And historically, especially with 1 John, its important to note that the general epistles, which is all those letters that St. Paul didnt write, the general or catholic epistles, the ones written by other people, out of all of those, in the very early history of the Church, were being utilized by some churches and not others. Stephen: Im Um, actually"ing you in real time. Andrew: Yes. Fr. What is being atoned for? And you know, when an apostle interprets the Old Testament for you? He is also the author of The Whole Counsel Blog on . Stephen: Right, now, a couple of key things there. Fr. Consequently, I greeted the arrival of Fr. So were going to talk about some Second Temple literature. Since I have always wanted to understand ancient texts through the lens of their original context, I have taken a keen interest in Judaism. Fr. We have a text in the New Testament that says that those very verses were fulfilled in Christs ministry. Fr. When he says that Christs blood is going to be upon them and upon their children, thats a blessing! Thats okay. Photius: Oh, man! Stephen: And its not, you know, some kind of sacred gold mined from the holy mountain. Ive seen that myself. Stephen De Young, goes back to what I explained earlier: our understanding of the Judaism of Jesus' day has been tinctured by Rabbinic Judaism, which we anachronistically assume reflects the tradition of the Pharisees. Email Newsletter, Terms of Use Privacy Policy Permissions Content Disclaimer. And he arguedone of his most prominent arguments that he repeated again again was that penal substitutionary atonement is the only theory of how it works that has a mechanism of how it worksthats his word. So it does end up being germane to our topic this evening. Thats just a good guiding principle here, super, super important; makes all these references to atonement in the New Testament make a lot more sense. And then he also takes away the sins of the world, meaning the sins that the people commit; he takes away their sins. How do you put sins on a goat? YouTube And in a ritual, if something is not ritualized, when you have a detailed ritual, and it says, Before the ritual, wash your hands, for example, and it doesnt say, Heres the prayer when you wash your hands, that means the hand-washing isnt ritualized, and it means it doesnt mean anything. He is regarded by Josephus, for example, as the first heretic. How does God make it happen?. The reality is more like what we were talking about tonight that we see unfold in the Scriptures with atonement and everything else, that there are these cosmic realities of spiritual warfare, of Christ defeating the powers of evil, of Christ setting us free and purifying us, making us holy and setting us apart and bringing us into his kingdom; that are cosmic realities that each of us has been given the gift of being able to participate in, in time. What can I say? So, yeah, its literally the Day of AtoCovering. So at the beginning thats Eden or paradise, but then everything outside of it, in comparison. But when Judaism was invented in the 6th century, they rejected much of their heritage that overlapped with Christianity, from the Septuagint to the doctrine of God being more than one person. And when we were talking about this, you mentioned that, in terms of the actual construction of the language there, its a parallel construction, that Yahweh and Azazel are being used in parallel. Andrew: Yeah, where that stuff is depicted as being good, like This spirit came and gave us this wonderful, beautiful knowledge! And the Bible is saying, No! Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. Fr. Fr. But, right, so atonement, at-one-ment: I looked this up, so I have on my desk a gigantic dictionary called the Oxford English Dictionary. The Nephilim were said to be a race or a group of people that had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength. Fr. And by the way, those handful of later Greek usages seem to be based on the Jewish use of it, meaning its used in contexts where someone is making some kind of offering to a supernatural being, to a spiritual being. Stephen: So hes seen in 1 Enoch, or the book of Enoch, when Azazel appears, Azazel is sort of the leader of the bad guys, the leader of the rebellious watchers, who are responsible for corrupting the line of Cain and leading them to destruction that results in the flood. Fr. Fr. This kind of thing is fun, and it can be very easy, when exposed to theology, especially theology of this kind, thats trying to explain how everything works and how everything fits together and see things from Gods perspective, to approach our Christian life from that perspective, that its about me figuring things out; its about me piecing things together: its about this intellectual construct that I want to form in my mind, where I have the perfect theology and I understand everything. Stephen: Right, the goat for Yahweh. And our purpose is as St. Johns purpose: These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ and that, believing, you may have life in his name. Thats the purpose of this podcast. About Fr. I know. Fr. Stephen: Right, and you especially dont need to bring any livestock to the church. Sorry, preview is currently unavailable. Stephen began dismantling many assumptions that had been part of the taken-for-granted background to my understanding of Christian origins. This goat, we dont know nothing. Stephen De Young is the author of God Is a Man of War and The Religion of the Apostles from Ancient Faith Publishing. They see this as a kind or type of atonement. You know, that makes total sense. Fr. I mean, people debate exactly how the blood dealt with the taint, like: Did it absorb it? Stephens historical research dismantled beliefs that I held in common with thousands of other modern Christians about the Bible and its teachings. In the Orthodox Church, Greek is kind of our base language for theology and liturgy and so forth. En (James A.) Fr. Im like, its: You have two goats And now theres going to be all these rumors: See? Johannes U. Ro and Diana Edelman, BZAW 534 (Berlin: de Gruyter, 2021), 263-88. Stephen: Thats a reference you probably didnt get, but you laughed anyway. Remember, the blood of this goat is used to purify sacred space. Stephen: And all the Ethiopians will rejoice because theyre like: [Whispered] Weve got it!. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University and is the host of the The Whole Counsel of God podcast and co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast on Ancient Faith Radio. So St. Luke is doing this narratively, and Hebrews is just giving it to us theologically, explaining it to us.
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