This should reduce ground control authority and make oscillations less powerful. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. They optimize use of oxidizer in SSTOs. In 5e D&D and Grim Hollow, how does the Specter transformation affect a human PC in regards to the 'undead' characteristics and spells? 4. Sorry if this is just too basic, it is kind of for beginners, edit: [snipped the stupid thought] i need to stop trying to post when dead tired, I like rules of thumb like these All the info you need without getting bogged down with specifics, Just a quick FYI, you say that CoL is center of thrust and CoT is center of lift; these are the wrong way around. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. They'll still happen but you'll have more time to get off the ground. It uses six Mk 1 utility bay-mounted Junos for hovering. From your description of your plane I would check the following: You seem to have done a lot of things right. That SAS can hold a craft stable doesn't mean it's a stable craft. You can horse hundreds of tonnes, up and down both, with the standard canard pieces. Center of Mass - The average of all weight on the plane, this tool will show where gravity will pull . Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. Once you got a hang of these, try bigger stuff. You may need to add several on bigger craft. In particular, there's one constraint that needs special attention: centre of mass, and the invariance thereof, as you burn fuel. The gear of the craft can also easily be overlooked, but can make the difference between flying masterpiece and soon-to-be-scraps. 19000m. It's a flatbed freighter suitable for shuttling base modules to and from the surface. Are there any canonical examples of the Prime Directive being broken that aren't shown on screen? Similar to the fuel pump mods out there now. Their hoverjets just have a TWR of less than 1.0. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Pasted as rich text. That way you can tuck them away for normal flight, and expose them for hovering. The absurdly big wing and control surfaces make it highly economical for high-altitude supercruising. I have not had much success usingonly horizontally oriented intakes - the engines do not have sufficient air flow to generate enough thrust to actually lift the craft. This item will only be visible to you, admins, and anyone marked as a creator. [1] At this speed it is possible to circumnavigate Kerbin in about 29 minutes at an altitude of 40 km. Finally, it is really difficult to land a HTOL atmospheric craft on Duna because of the thin air: you'll be going really fast and terrain is really bumpy, so there's a huge risk of ending up as a big ball of fire, whereas it's very hard to land a conventional rocket lander precisely,like when you're aiming for your surface base. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. I've always found that best way to not crash on the take off is to take off. Getting all of this into one craft is a pretty intricate business, however. The parts regarding landing gear placement is especially relevant in 1.1.x. Clear editor. A twin-pod design is similar to a twin-boom, except that it has a conventional tail extending from the fuselage. If additionally you can give it a controlled tilt and hold it there, then it'll start accelerating in that direction, like a helicopter. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. Plane veering off course is not uncommon but uneven fuel draw can exacerbate it a lot. You can post now and register later. Your, Add enough downward-pointing jets to lift the plane, as symmetrically as you can around the, Adjust the thrust limiter on the fore (or aft) hoverjets until the thrust vector lines up with the. It can be as crazy or as normal as you want, just remember these basic tips, 1. Move them back and fill them with fuel or weigh them down with control surfaces. Drive gently off the runway and use the huge grassy field to take off, without care in the world about the plane veering to a side. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. For the vertical engines, do you also need to have some verticalintakes? You do need rather a lot of them. Try reducing control authority (or even generally amount) of control surfaces - rudder, ailerons, the front wheel (maybe even make it a fixed one). Reaction wheels will balance smaller craft just fine, but are probably insufficient for bigger ones. Hovering is expensive but you don't really need all that many seconds of hover either for take-off or for landing. Display as a link instead, Intriguingly, there is one thing I've found that does prevent the wobble from starting, and that is to use a single engine mounted directly on the back of the fuselage, which prevents using a tail and is ultimately a fairly significant restriction to build around. Most of my planes I'm able to knock each of them down to 40% and still perform 7-8G maneuvers. All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! Valve Corporation. So if you're getting those flame-outs, add more intakes until you don't get them anymore. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. In other words, your fuel tanks need to be placed symmetrically around the centre of mass so it doesn't shift as the tanks dry, and you need to get your vertical thrust vector exactly aligned with said centre of mass. If it starts tipping in one direction, you're really likely to flip over and crash dramatically, like a tree falling over. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Another pointer is to make your wings larger with the same amount of control surface. Even though it just spawned. It only takes a minute to sign up. Air-breathing hoverjetsneedintakes. Turns out it was wheel positioning! You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. The rudder is mostly used when landing and when attempting to line up a shot (in a fighter plane). No, the intakes don't have to be vertical. Good, strong control authority - instead of reducing the pitch control authority, make the plane aerodynamically stable, so that even if you do flip it, it will right itself. Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Screenshot of the Week #89 [Submissions Closed, Vote Now!]. What are the arguments for/against anonymous authorship of the Gospels. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). It may be too far forward, especially if the tail is too small relative to the plane's wings. I actually like canard layouts, but I'm going to endorse this post because it's a simple, easy way to do it. You can pick the main cockpit and rotate the whole craft with it in SPH to see where your CoL will drift. Edit: After reading it again, it just seems to have a bit too many errors. You would need a lot of orbits at 69 km to come down into the ground. When you're close to it, INCREASE THROTTLE until your rate of descent nears zero. E.g. Even exponential growth can take a while to get going if it starts out microscopic, and Id be fascinated to find someone who could figure out a way of measuring the growth rate. They can be placed on wings. Take the large delta wings and place them on the aircraft. That's what this guide is all about, so we're not talking about VTOL rockets that don't make use of wings to produce lift. At this point you'll probably need to go back to the plane design you started with, because air intakes are dry mass and will shift the CoM as you add them. For more information, please see our - SF. Things get ugly!!). Because of that if you for example place control surfaces at the front you can make a plane that has CoL behind CoM (like in the picture) unstable because CoL will drift forward past CoM as AoA increases (contrary to your 4th point). rev2023.5.1.43405. Wings on the front of the craft can cause pitching and rolling, causing you to hold W constantly. All rights reserved. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). Upload or insert images from URL. The CoL should be behind the CoM on a horizontal angle, unless you're building a shuttle. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. You should talk about the rocket engine's dV (approx., since not all users use Mechjeb or any other mod capable of showing dV for a given engine and tank). @italian man Great guide, and for people who would like to know the basics of plane building i will be pointing them here. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. @davidalangay all of the wings provide lift, and some of them also act as a control surfaces, its pretty self explanitory, Im having a weird glitch, where whenever I make a plane (I even tried copying your design in this guide, to the T, and it broke too) they spawn, and if it's a big plane will always veer off to the left and be completely unable to turn right, and if it's small, then it'll start rocking side to side and flip over. The craft will lift off once generated lift + hoverjet thrust overcome its mass. the vertical stabilizer only handles yaw? I have a simple Vtol SSTO that can take off with junos, hit LKO with rapiers, maybe with 100 m/s left on the rocket side, then return to spaceport and have sufficient liquid fuel for vertical landing. The downside is that it isn't as pretty, but it *does* top out at mach 1.8 with a humble wheesly. Jets are good for a certain amount of static thrust but they don't allow quick control of your vertical speed because of their slow spool time. I've spent the past three hours committing a genocide of historical proportions against my Kerbals, and it's making me quite sad. Now, get a pair of winglets, and place them at the front of the plane to get that approximate spacing of COM . I'm finding it quite surprising you didn't manage to get the plane to fly yet. You want an elevon on each set of wings. For the CoM / CoL relationship to get a stable-yet-maneuverable craft, I'd recommend doing the tweaks in two stages. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. Otherwise tune the suspension to keep takeoff and landing stable. This one is balanced with reaction wheels. You might still be able to turn very quickly, but if you don't have enough wing you won't drag your velocity vector with you, which means you force your wings into a stall and bleed energy in a hurry (and can also lose control, depending). With a decent lever arm to work with you can be both perfectly stable in level flight and very agile in pitch and yaw controls. I've never found them to be practical (at least on Kerbin) for anything except short flights around the KSC and flying to the island runway and back. Sometimes though, planes need to do more complex jobs, like flying farther or making it to space, so I am planning on adding another guide to explain how to make and what to consider in an SSTO spaceplane. A V/STOL atmospheric craft built for Duna can drop you on any dime, anywhere on the surface. So basic, anyone can do it. Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an air intake or other air-sucking device (you can find them in aerodynamics) on the airplane. You need to sign in or create an account to do that. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane. Throttle up to full, activate SAS, stage to start the engine (you'll only have one stage here), and start rolling (or sliding) down the runway! However, don't put any fuel tanks on it yet, and empty any fuel-containing parts that you are using. "Type E" is the smallest you should have, and you want a set of those connected at the back of the fuselage. You want to keep the CoL slightly behind the CoM, but not too much to not create torque. Flying planes will be much simpler, with much reduced cross-control issues. You need about 150 m/s for the landing, less than that for take-off. Paint a picture in that little head of yours, imagine that the Mass was in the back, when you stall it, it will ALWAYS fall backwards and. Kerbin has some biomes that are difficult to reach any other way. Set up your control scheme: one action group for toggling the hover jets, another action group for toggling the main jets, plus yet another one to toggle the hover jet bays, if you're using them (as you should). Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. and our Making a fuselage. Always look at your aircraft from a 90* angle on the side. This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. Wheels need to be touching the ground exactly as they were intended to, you cannot angle them in any direction other then their intended direction when placing them. On the other hand, atmospheric craft are superb for exploring it for the very same reason you can scout for the perfect spot for your base, then land precisely there. On 11/1/2018 at 10:54 AM, Brikoleur said: On 1/25/2019 at 4:03 AM, panzerknack said: This thread is quite old. KSP should be handing out engineering degrees :). Privacy Policy. the front should be close to double the rear gears strength) And Good Guide! Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. As you reach 100m/s, hold S to pull the stick back, and you should be in the air! The CoG shouldn't be TOO far in front of the CoL, though. Try not to make your first airplanes longer than 3 MK1 fuselages. In the crash log, it says that at 00:00:00 there is "Lift-Off!" - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. Nah, the stabilizer will do it. I'd start with a lawn arrow that can be hardly pulled up, horrible to maneuver, with CoL way behind, but rock-stable. Intakes are your friend when you use liquid fuel. So this guide is about atmospheric craft designed to fly by makinguse of lift generated by wings, which can take off and land vertically by use of downward-pointing jets or rockets. Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device. You've landed. There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. Also as others have pointed out, keeping the COM/COL/COT alignments proper is essential for aircraft. If you forget to put an air intake on your airplane, don't worry! Wings have been flown both with and without struts, Wheel friction was even decreased to 0.3 for front wheel and increased to 2.0 for rear wheels, as per a tip found online. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! The fastest known plane demonstrated, in version 0.23, a top speed of about 2377 m/s relative to Kerbin's surface just short of Mach 7. also, you state that a stabilizer (you called it a tail) isn't necessary, and although that's true, it's worth noting that a stabilizer is vital in preventing, and recovering, from flat spins, which can be extremely dangerous. Does the order of validations and MAC with clear text matter? I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. This is always my strategy for building planes (although sometimes things go horribly wrong for a different reason.) OK, I have a really pedantic question here: Is it even possible to have a practical VTOL craft without using the unlimited fuel cheat? Have fun with your S/VTOL craft and don't forget there are more ways to do them as well, including helicopter-like things that don't fly aerodynamically at all. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. For what it's worth - watching 1.2 pre-release streams, the upcoming changes to SAS are profound. I moved the wheels from the tail to the fuel fuselage, and now she takes off like a dream! That should just about do it for basic planes. Right click on the control surfaces and knock down the control authority of each item. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Control surfaces near center of mass sometimes get "confused" as to their role and do stupid things. Starting from something with MK3 hull without experience in MK1 will be an uphill battle. LTTP but anyway: the question is, practical for what? Clear editor. Building planes is one of the more fun things to do in Kerbal Space Program, and also leads to more science on kerbin and eventually SSTO spaceplanes. Also, I would like to know how I can tweak my aircraft to make them smooth at the controls. Eventually you either crash, or you reach a high enough speed that SAS wiggling can't cause a significant enough difference in engine speeds. The Center of Gravity is ALWAYS above Center of Lift. When your airspeed is low enough that aerodynamic control is getting sluggish. If his problem is the plane doing backflips at a touch of 's', I wouldn't go with 'slightly'. there aren't any aerodynamics when you are a kraken scientist like me. If the fuel flows from the. Your CoT vector will disappear. You can also use fine controls with the Caps key, or change control surface sensitivity and assigned movements. Set the thrust limiter on your main engines to zero. The CoL should be in the center or just behind the CoM. (The spacing of COM and COL in your second picture is about right.) Hi @Brikoleur, nice work! If the fuel flows from the. Why did DOS-based Windows require HIMEM.SYS to boot? And above all: have fun! (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Absolute Beginner's Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKgGHrNZnz2ca8NVuyj7eHXc Craft File - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cfFBMm4EBhDh8mQ2UuOn9f5DL6jBgM05/view?usp=drivesdk0:00 - Introduction1:42 - Planning our Science Collection3:36 - Starting our Build4:49 - Changing Symmetry Mode6:40 - Adding Fuel8:07 - Adding Jet Engines \u0026 Air Intakes9:10 - Adding Wings \u0026 Elevons10:55 - Adding a Tail12:03 - Understanding Center of Lift16:24 - Understanding Control Surfaces18:31 - Adding Landing Gear22:25 - Summary This guide will show how to make simple-ish planes and other aerodynamic tips. Also, lift is usually placed in the middle-to-back of the wing, depending on the shape. I think it might be so small it starts with floating-point rounding errors; it's exponential and compounds every frame. The CoM (Center of Mass) is a yellow ball on your spacecraft when you enable it in the SPH. 100% is fine for doing a pure Pilot Assisted flight but for keyboard piloting it's too much. Can you check what happens if you swap in larger gear? It's unlikely you're doing this but just in case: while on the ground use only yaw controls to change direction, don't touch the roll controls. Can I use the spell Immovable Object to create a castle which floats above the clouds? Remember the, fuel flows from the front in KSP, so you might want to start off with the CoM in front of the CoL. This makes one engine generate more thrust than the other, exacerbating the turn. The second one is likely to be aerodynamics if you just stick on some downward-pointing jets, you will find that they produce a lot of drag, which is going to be really inefficient. Display as a link instead, All rights reserved. I was a diehard rocketer (5k hours or so) until a month ago and then suddenly got the spaceplane bug, I can now see why some people (*cough*Val*cough*) come out with dozens of designs: it's neat when it works so well. Absolutely! Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. There are lots of ways to make this work, but here are some designs I've used successfully: For rocket-powered hover, use Spark,Aerospike, or Vector (if you really need a lotof hover power).