I know that Underwood Ammo sells some pretty nasty rounds called Controlled Fracture rounds. Needless to say, Jihawg Ammo quickly found itself the target of criticism and even derision from much of the gun owning community. What type of background did they have that allowed them to use their weapons with such evil proficiency? AgDaily, OutdoorHub All Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors. This enhances rigidity which allows the sharp "talons" to remain perpendicular to the wound path. I missed a lot in the 90s. Both of these are non-bonded, so they both have some jacket separation at the nose. . [15], Platt fired one round from his Mini-14 at Risner and Orrantias position, wounding Orrantia with shrapnel created by the bullets passage, and two rounds at McNeill. This difference is obvious after firing into ballistic gelatin. Matix was apparently knocked unconscious by the hits and fired no more rounds. Sell your 357 black talon ammo for FREE today on GunsAmerica! Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. RecPak is a meal replacement for the outdoors that saves you weight, space and time in the most challenging environments, just add water. If you compress the blood vessels in the body enough, the blood ruptures vessels at the weakest point. Due to collision damage, Matix could only open his door partially, and fired one shotgun round at Grogan and Dove, striking their vehicle. Everyone there was shooting 9mm or 38 SPL/357 magnums. My hat is off to you. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. He thought our use of Ranger Underwood is the only thing that i trust to keep my wife and kids safe when I am not at home. The companys excellent marketing campaign should be creditedfor putting the round out front and center, garnering more than 1.5 million views on YouTube over just a span of a few days. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. Black Talon, a type of expanding, hollow-point ammunition also vilified in the early 1990s as "cop-killer bullets". The Critical Duty FlexLock bullet incorporates two revolutionary Hornady features to deliver superior barrier penetration and consistent performance. Now additional rounds that struck muscle tissue did major tissue destruction and one in the arm shattered the bone and almost severed the arm ending the battle and even that round failed to exit. They actually became friends in the Army. I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. [11] McNeill was then shot in the hand and, due to his wound and blood in his revolvers chambers, could not reload.[8]. The most recently released roundon this list, G2s Radically Invasive Projectile (R.I.P.) If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. SIG's standout defensive handgun load is the Elite Performance blend with V-Crown bullet, available in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, as well as others. While the Black Talon may have been a PR nightmare for Winchester, it was not a complete loss for the company. I second and add my own thumbs up to G-Mans comments in praise of this article by Suzanne. Armor-piercing handgun ammunition has been banned in the United States since 1986, and unless you had some beforehand, you likely wont be shooting any AP 9x19mm rounds anytime soon. Find your best price for handgun Ammo black talon | Best handgun Ammunition black talon - AmmoSeek.com Search Engine 2023 If the round carries enough energy into the hit area (say, the lower side torso for example) the vascular system will experience massive compression leading to burst blood vessels in the brain. Injured by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223 bullet near miss. Gilbert Orrantia: S&W (model unknown, likely a Model 13, as it was an issued weapon at the time) .357 Magnum revolver, 12 rounds .38 Special +P fired. Introduced in 2007, the Ranger T Series is still available for purchase today. I personally used to use federal hydroshock mainly because thats what was available to me and what I was used to until watching some videos on YouTube about the g2 research rip rounds and the underwood extreme defender rounds.the rip rounds do kinda look impressive but at the same time dont look to me like they would have much of a impact.now the underwood on the other hand Ive seen go through a class 2 vest and still penetrate 16 of ballistic gel leaving a wound cavity thats just massive and that was only a 9mm round.ordered both brands recently and plan on testing them out for myself especially since theyre only 115grain rounds in a 40cal which is what my cc cal is.curious to see if I can get the same results penetrating diff barriers such as drywall,plywood,glass,sheet metal and a vest with a 40cal opposed to the 9mm in video.have a strong feeling that my new carry round will be the underwood extreme defender though.pray i never have to use one in defense but if i do i dont think anything or anyone would still be standing after getting hit with a extreme defender round. The Shooter's Log, is to provide informationnot opinionsto our customers and the shooting community. Critics alleged the ammunition caused unnecessary physical damage. Gordon McNeill: Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Once that was made public the round died an instant death. which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. It was captained by Revinal Orzik. After all, it is nothing more than slightly modernized Black Talon ammo, but with a market friendly sounding name. Best Handguns for Detectives in Fiction | The Writer's Guide to Weapons. Platt rounded the rear of their car and killed Grogan with a shot to the chest, shot Hanlon in the groin area, and then killed Dove with two shots to the head. Home Ammunition Black Talon and Todays Best Self-Defense Ammo. Think a little bit harder/smarter. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. They sell for $50-$75 around. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. Additionally, the FlexLock core eliminates clogging, improves bullet expansion, and maximizes weight retention in regard to terminal ballistics. Winchester got burned by its own marketing hype on Black Talon, when criminal misuse of the product fueled media hysterics over bullets that deploy flesh-ripping claws. Problem here is that in the LE business the females cannot qualify with the 10MM I would think. Wal-Marts in my area stock PDX-1 all the time. Hanlon fired at Platt and was shot in the hand while reloading. Sign In . Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. * New York and New Jersey : Banned from owning Hollow Points. How many times have you heard about the last round youll ever need? Or how about guaranteed stopping power? Its a given that ammunition manufacturers want to make the best, most efficient product possibleand that basically means that the more lethal the round, the better it is. Your email address will not be published. PDX-1 looks the same on expansion as the BT, except now the claws are filled in with lead because PDX-1 is a bonded bullet, which is a superior design to the non-bonded BT. 's blog. The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. [1] As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. Even the old snub nosed 38 with plus P ammo would shoot through a persons torso at close range. I believe that strong 10mm ammo (not the watered down stuff) can solve this problem. A great Sunday morning read! The points of the claws are actually the result of the geometry of the copper jacket being inside the nose cavity and subsequently turned inside-out on impact. This hollow-point ammunition became known for its bullet's unique construction and sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6]. They dont really contribute very much to tissue damage. We were operating a Advanced Combat Survival course (TAMU). We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. A 5 1911 gave the most impressive-looking bullet expansion Ive ever seen. Platt then fired his rifle at Mireles who was running across the street to join the fight. [8] A jury of your peers, and not a knowledgeable jury with respect to ammunition, will hear those words He loaded those Cop Killer Bullets into his gun and just waited for the chance to use them. Your claim of Self-Defense now becomes premeditated murder! For the prestige of having and carrying the bullets that rip apart the insides after passing through a bulletproof vest instead you have become the evil gun owner. Killed after being shot 12 times. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition. At no point was the round ever prohibited by United States law. [3] Though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax, the ammo has an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Winchester Black Talon was the answer for a more effective hollow point duty round demanded by the FBI following the 1986 Miami, FL shootout. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. This ammo is packed in the original 20rd. SIG V-Crown. [20], Platts actions at this moment in the fight have been debated. Despite being riddled with bullet holes from the FBI, Platt was able to continue firing back. This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Besides further dimensional changes to the hollow point for reliable expansion, the distinctive perpendicular petals were made longer yet more rounded at the tips to retain stiffness. You are 100% correct, that expansion is nice in preventing over penetration, but it is correct penetration that wins the fight. Unfortunately, Winchester stopped producing Black Talon ammunition in 2000, which only fed into its mystique. "The Best Damn Gunshop in the World" 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063 BROWSE OUR New Arrivals! boxes. Join SOFREP for insider access and analysis. Uninjured. [21] However, it is known for certain that Platt pulled Matixs Dan Wesson revolver at some point and fired three rounds. As a result, the FBI began the search for a more capable sidearm and more effective ammunition. Not true. I'm so confused. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. Hornady Critical Duty, with FlexLock technology, delivers "barrier blind" performance when shot through common urban barriers. The Black Talon and other high-performance ammunition combine a hollow point, which enables the bullet to expand upon impact, and notched configurations, which direct the expansion into a sharp . For that job I switch over to the blue ball tipped Glaser Safety Slugs, still sold by CorBon. it's about the bullet expansion :)Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle. Black Talon ammunition was created by Winchester in 1991. Legend has it that some surgeons found the sharp edges of the claws created a job hazard for them when they would probe a wound and tear open their rubber gloves on the sharp points. He fired a .357 Magnum revolver at agents Ronald Risner and Gilbert Orrantia, and was shot a fourth time when turning to fire at Hanlon, Dove and Grogan. By admin | January 9, 2023 | 32. Luckily, 10mm handguns were new and not many shooters had them. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. I am also well versed in the Black Talon and its complete run in history to the point that I own some for posterity sake. [16][22], Platt attempted to start the Grogan/Dove car. It reaches 70 ammo reserve with mods, receives 24 ammo per Heavy or Sword Ammo Finder brick, or 40 per regular brick with the new scavenger artifact mod. Elevation Talon 44 Bow Case Black 44 In. XDS 45 Hornady Critical Defense / Golden Saber 185 gr The collision knocked off Grogans glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective. . The bullet was designed in 1991 under the supervision of Alan Corzine, who at that time was VP of research and development for Winchester. Glock 30 Gold dot 200 gr +P / Critical Duty 220 gr +P / HST 230 gr +P In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. McCarthy v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. Despite being riddled with bullet holes from the FBI agents, Platt was able to continue firing back. While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin. Past works have been authored to cover only the major talking points in your article, and were forced to do so only as distinctly separate stories due to the sheer volume of information involved; however, you managed to blend the entire history of each topic into one very well written article that is somehow brief, yet able to maintain excellent continuity without missing any of the most important facts. The Black Talon was a "HollowPoint" and expanded upon impacts. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. This round is an excellent choice for self-defense or home defense. In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. Its Winchester ra9b, the b is for bonded, made for the feds. In all actuality, it was a special black coating with the purpose of preserving barrel life. Quite a few years ago, an IDPA shooter handed me a shiny silver cartridge with a black bullet and said, Dont lose this. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. On internet forums, gun enthusiasts frequently joke that that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing",[13] though the official branding is Supreme eXpansion Technology. The result is extremely uniform expansion, better separation of the petals, and more consistent penetration across barrier types through full-size handguns. Glock 26 Hornady Critical Defense / Gold dot 115 gr / Barnes TAC 115 +P Grogan and Dove were kneeling alongside the drivers side of their car. I have tested the PDX-1 in .45ACP and found that it needs at least 4 of bbl. [23] Mireles reached the drivers side door, extended his revolver through the window, and fired his sixth shot at Platt. Thats why Federal HST is the duty load of choice for law enforcement officers throughout the world. They tend to kinda lose interest in doing anything else than try to breath after that. Most of the design for the Black Talon was rolled over into the Ranger SXT ammunition, which operates on much the same principle. This ammo was not only controversial, some called it downright offensive. I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. There are still places, like New Jersey, where the ownership of hollow points isrestricted. Review: Hi-Point JXP 10mm An Overgrown Yeet Canon Thats a Lot of Fun! Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the Black Talons demise. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. With great BC, excellent expansion values, and very high weight retention, these solid copper pills serve across the spectrum of rifle and pistol platforms and their associated libary of targets requirments.